http://clevermsbennet.livejournal.com/ ([identity profile] clevermsbennet.livejournal.com) wrote in [community profile] fandomhigh2008-10-30 02:41 am
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Literature, Class 8: Period 3, Thursday, October 30

"Last week," Miss Bennet said, folding her hands behind her, "for one of our three excerpts, we read Dante's Inferno. Or rather -- since I am hardly cruel enough to ask you to read all of Dante's Inferno in one sitting -- Canto XXVII. And if we wish to be precise, what we read was James Finn Cotter's translation of Dante's Inferno, a work written in Dante's native language, Italian. James Finn Cotter is hardly the only person to have translated Dante; I might have selected Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's version, or the Reverend H. F. Cary's. I chose Cotter largely because it seemed the clearest. It was possibly the least artistic, however, and I will confess, I've no real notion which would hew the closest to Dante's intent. Let us take a moment, then, to compare them.

"If you'll remember, the first six lines last week's translation went as such:

By this time the flame stood straight and still
With no more words and by now took its leave
With the permission of the gentle poet

When another, coming right behind it,
Forced us to turn our eyes toward its tip
Because of the scrambled sound it sputtered out.

"If you are wondering why the flame is standing and conversing with the narrator, the explanation was given in the previous Canto; I apologize for placing you mid-narrative in such a confusing manner. They are in the Eighth Circle of Hell, and these sinners are walking flames. That explained, the verse becomes quite clear: this particular flame has finished its tale -- one, no doubt, related in Canto XXVI -- and takes his leave, only to be replaced by another soul, hoping to confess his crimes to Dante. The Inferno carries on in this manner: Dante and his guide, Virgil, proceed through Hell, meeting damned souls and hearing their transgressions.

"The summary for this initial part of Canto XXVII will stay the same for all versions of the work. The essential details will not change. But a summary isn't the same as a translation. Here we move on to Longfellow.

Already was the flame erect and quiet,
To speak no more, and now departed from us
With the permission of the gentle Poet;

When yet another, which behind it came,
Caused us to turn our eyes upon its top
By a confused sound that issued from it.

"The differences here are subtle. Longfellow and Cotter are expressing much the same sentiments, but with synonymous wording. 'Forced' against 'Caused.' 'Took its leave' as compared to 'departed from us.' And yet we are already seeing some small discrepancies. 'Scrambled' is not the same as 'confused,' and 'sputtered' has picturesque connotations that 'issued' does not carry. Translators, in taking a work to a new language, must make these decisions continuously. Is something 'large,' 'great,' 'grand,' or 'enormous'? Is the narrator 'happy,' 'content,' 'delighted,' 'ecstatic,' or 'glad'? Each word contains its own subtle shading. Furthermore, one needs to look at context. The scrambled sound it sputtered out has a bit of alliteration -- 'alliteration' is when several words all start with the same letter or sound -- and 'sound' and 'out' have similar vowel sounds, which makes for a far more pleasing result.

"And now we turn to Cary.

NOW upward rose the flame, and still’d its light
To speak no more, and now pass’d on with leave
From the mild poet gain’d, when following came
Another, from whose top a sound confus’d,
Forth issuing, drew our eyes that way to look.

"The essential actions have not changed; the current flame departs, and a new one arrives. But this new flame 'draws' our eyes, not 'forces.' The poet is no longer 'gentle' -- he is 'mild'. More striking is the fact that Cary has compressed those six lines to five. Longfellow and Cotter both keep the Cantos in three-line stanzas, throughout; for Cary, Canto XXVII begins as five lines, then twelve, then eleven, four, ten, three, seven, and so forth, with no discernible pattern. Cary appears to have placed the breaks where he felt they worked the best, narratively, as opposed to following Dante's lead.

"Translating a work is an arduous task at the simplest of times. This is to say nothing of the difficulties one finds when one language contains words or concepts that another simply does not possess. The German word schadenfreude means the pleasure one feels in the suffering or misfortune of others. It has largely been adopted in English because we have no concise equivalent. Many other words have not made this transition."

"Lastly, Dante's work is poetry, and one must wonder if poetry -- which emphasizes the lyrical choice of words, the flow and lilt, the art to the visual presentation as well as the sound when spoken aloud -- can ever truly retain its impact when translated. By necessity, the result cannot be the same. Whereas prose can largely keep its essence in another form, poetry is far more ephemeral. Having said that, if one believes that poetry can never cross linguistic boundaries, then one may not experience any poetry which did not originate in one's native tongue. Unless one intends to devote many years to mastering all known languages."

She smiled, generously, at all of them. "As a final note, I met some of your friends and family this weekend. They were all delightful, and I promise you most sincerely, I did not say anything of which you would disapprove."
gobrookeyourself: (talky)

Re: Sign In (LIT-8)

[personal profile] gobrookeyourself 2008-10-30 12:35 pm (UTC)(link)
Brooke Davis

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Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[identity profile] darkangelsawyer.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 12:46 pm (UTC)(link)
Peyton didn't much care about the lecture or, well, really anything else all that much.
withoutverona: (hair in eyes)

Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[personal profile] withoutverona 2008-10-30 01:10 pm (UTC)(link)
Romeo listened, wondering if his Italian would stand up to reading Dante in the original.

Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[identity profile] sarcasm-guy.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Sokka took detailed notes, and started grinning and bouncing a little when he realized that the class was about a question he'd asked last week.

Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[identity profile] senor-chado.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 10:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Chad thoughtfully jotted down notes, wondering a bit how he never really paid much attention to this sort of thing, considering he was completely fluent in three languages, one very very different from the other.

Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[identity profile] pyroliz.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 11:03 pm (UTC)(link)
Liz took down detailed notes.

Re: During the Lecture (LIT-8)

[identity profile] wanna-be-lucas.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Lucas was focused during class, comparing the examples and thinking what he would have chosen.
withoutverona: (listening)

Re: Discussion #1: Languages (LIT-8)

[personal profile] withoutverona 2008-10-30 01:13 pm (UTC)(link)
"I spent some time in France this year," Romeo said, skipping over the more fantastical aspects. "I hadn't much time to read, but when I did, I could tell I was missing certain aspects of the text. Still, I;d prefer the artistic interpretation to the literal."

Re: Discussion #1: Languages (LIT-8)

[identity profile] sarcasm-guy.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 08:35 pm (UTC)(link)
"We only really have the one language back home," Sokka answered. "Well, except for the ancient language (i.e. badly translated Chinese), but that's only used for the names of places and stuff like that." He shrugged. "I know some Al Bhed, though."

As for the other questions... He thought about it for a bit. "I think I'd rather an artistic interpretation. I mean, a literal one is good for keeping the meaning intact, but you lose the flavor that way, don't you?"

Re: Discussion #1: Languages (LIT-8)

[identity profile] senor-chado.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 10:23 pm (UTC)(link)
"I speak four languages," Chad said thoughtfully, "three of which I learned when I was really young and know fluently, but I never really paid much attention to stuff like that except that, sometimes, with Japanese, there's a lot of things that translate real wonky because of cultural differences. Colloquialisms, and stuff."

Re: Discussion #1: Languages (LIT-8)

[identity profile] noboynextdoor.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 10:55 pm (UTC)(link)
"I've never had a reason to learn a new language, but sometimes I wish I had," Jess admitted. "It would be cool to be able to speak and read two languages, I think."

Re: Discussion #1: Languages (LIT-8)

[identity profile] sonofmogh.livejournal.com 2008-10-31 04:18 am (UTC)(link)
"I have read the translation of Hamlet from its native Klingon to English," Worf replied. "The English translation loses much of it's intended meaning."

Re: Discussion #2: Dante and Linguistic Difficulties (LIT-8)

[identity profile] sarcasm-guy.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 08:48 pm (UTC)(link)
"Well, I think the last one sounds the most like good poetry," Sokka began, "but if the translator's mucking with the stanzas, that's no good! I mean, poetry isn't just about the meaning of the words, it's the sounds of them, too -- the rhythms, the number of syllables, the rhyming -- you've got to take it all into account, right?" He studied the three passages some more, looking for all the world as if he thought he could make them better just by staring at them. "Do you have a copy of the original, to compare them to?"

Re: Discussion #3: Poetry (LIT-8)

[identity profile] sarcasm-guy.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 08:52 pm (UTC)(link)
"I hope it CAN keep its character, if you do it right, because otherwise there's all sorts of great poems that I'll never be able to read. I just don't know how you'd be able to do it right. I mean, all three of these translations -- really, all of them should be called 'So-and-so's Inferno, based on a poem by Dante'."

Re: Talk to the TAs (LIT-8)

[identity profile] wanna-be-lucas.livejournal.com 2008-10-30 11:18 pm (UTC)(link)
Lucas spoke American English and preferred American literature. Someone get the boy some apple pie.

Re: Talk to the TAs (LIT-8)

[identity profile] thankgoditsme.livejournal.com 2008-10-31 06:24 am (UTC)(link)
Friday was a bit late to class and tried to sneak into his seat without being noticed. He was also very, very English.
raspberryturk: (Ow.)

Re: OOC (LIT-8)

[personal profile] raspberryturk 2008-10-30 05:10 pm (UTC)(link)
............ NAYVER FAYLES TO BRAYKE MYE BRAYNE.

*dies a little*